Which and why

"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012) 01/05/2017 at 08:09 • Filed to: None

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Age old question...

I just looked at BRZ and it added up to about 26k.
Then I looked at Toyota 86 and that added to 26K

If I squint a little - they look the same. put out about the same so.... which and why?

pip bip - choose Corrour > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:11

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flip a coin, go with which ever dealer gives a better price, or go with whichever brand dealer is closer. either way win-win

Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:12

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Not a Toyotabaru expert, but if I recall, the main differences are just in fit/finish. Might come down to which interior or styling things you prefer, or even which you can get a better deal on.

PartyPooper2012 > pip bip - choose Corrour 01/05/2017 at 08:12

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I wonder if I can play a game with dealer...

Borrow a coin FROM DEALER and flip it. have them call it. if they lose, I go to the other dealer.

PartyPooper2012 > Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer 01/05/2017 at 08:13

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does TRD bits make a difference in performance compared to what subaru offers?

LongbowMkII > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:15

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I like the brz front facia more.

Stapleface > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:15

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Personal opinion, but the BRZ looks better to me. Although I do prefer the wheels on the 86.

jimz > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:17

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Subaru if you want to go to an absolute dick of a dealer. Toyota if you want a dealer who will actually let you test drive it.

PartyPooper2012 > jimz 01/05/2017 at 08:18

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ooooh! Decisions Decisions!!!

Arrivederci > Stapleface 01/05/2017 at 08:18

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Base models have the same wheels. The BRZ pictured above has the Performance Pack.

Twinpowermeansoneturbo > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:18

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And... That’s how you get kicked out of a dealership.

Tripper > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:19

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The Subaru because it’s the only one that I have hands on experience with.

Arrivederci > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:19

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Since they’re the same car, pick whichever you can get a better deal on and/or is more aesthetically pleasing to your eye. I think the new Toyota 86 nose is hideous.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:19

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Subi. Because

a) It looks better since the Toyota “facelift”

b) I’d rather send my money to Subaru than Toyota. I don’t like Toyota in general. YES I KNOW THEY’VE GOT A FINGER IN IT ANYWAY BUT IT MAKES ME FEEL BETTER THIS WAY. PLEASE ALLOW ME TO CONTINUE LYING TO MYSELF.

PartyPooper2012 > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/05/2017 at 08:20

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In your defense, subaru sits slightly higher off the ground. Better clearances

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:20

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BRZ because the headlights are better, the interior doesn’t have a stupid white tach, the handling is more neutral (stiffer damping at the rear of the Toyota which is good for super dorifto, but not as good for traction), and you can get it in WRB. It also doen’t have a quivering lip.

duurtlang > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:21

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BRZ, because it’s not a Toyota.

But on a more serious note, there’s no real difference in the cars so decide on something else. Dealer. How much will they offer for your trade in? Which one is closer? Do their reputations differ?

fourvalleys > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:21

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Originally, the big differences were in interior materials and standard features. The BRZ came with navigation, a little nicer interior, HIDs, some extra trim in the trunk, and white paint wasn’t a $300 option like it was on the FR-S. There were also tiny, tiny differences between the suspension (if anyone you know tells you they could feel a difference, they’re lying). I think that’s mostly the big stuff.

There was also a higher trim on the BRZ that added push-button start, heated leather/alcantara seats, fog lights, and a silly spoiler. I got mine (base model) for the same price as an FR-S, so why not get the Subaru?

I don’t know the difference anymore, because who in their right mind would buy a car that looks like the 86, when a car that looks like the BRZ is (roughly) the same price?

punkgoose17 > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:21

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I prefer the styling of the BRZ, but I’d pick the one based on which dealer I would prefer to deal with through the warranty.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > jimz 01/05/2017 at 08:22

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I got to test drive them at all of the dealerships I went to when shopping for mine which were like three Subaru ones and two Toyota ones. Having gone with a friend, one of the Subie ones even let me take it without the dealer since he didn’t want to try to squeeze into the back!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:22

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No, they’re pretty much all just appearance things and you’re not going to be going for TRD for the performance bits anyway.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:24

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No it doesn’t. You’ll still hit the parking space bumper.

PartyPooper2012 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/05/2017 at 08:24

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how do you know where ill be going?

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > fourvalleys 01/05/2017 at 08:25

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(if anyone you know tells you they could feel a difference, they’re lying)

Not lying. The Scion has better turn in, but at the expense of rear traction. It’s subtle, but it’s there.

PartyPooper2012 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/05/2017 at 08:25

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but... only toyota is grounded to the ground...

PartyPooper2012 > Twinpowermeansoneturbo 01/05/2017 at 08:29

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No one with money gets kicked out of a dealership. That is just dumb business mistake. Bad word of mouth is going to hurt them much much more

DipodomysDeserti > jimz 01/05/2017 at 08:30

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My Subaru dealer let my 22 year-old self test drive the Forester XT and WRX I ended up buying from them. Their parts department carried lots of aftermarket goodies and also gave me discounts for being a member of NASIOC. The mechanics and my SA were all enthusiasts as well.

I’ve never been to a Toyota dealer.

DipodomysDeserti > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:32

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WRX.

Also about $26k but with better depreciation and an extra sixty ponies.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:33

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I don’t, but if you go with TRD instead of the myriad of other options because it’s TRD, you’re doing it wrong. That being said, 90% of the people with one of these are.

Wobbles the Mind > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:34

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Get a 124 Spider and take advantage of FCA incentives, new car warranty, and driving something different. Then trade it in for a used Toyobaru when you’re sick of it.

PartyPooper2012 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/05/2017 at 08:34

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phew.... i thought you were outside. In all seriousness, I know TRD is overpriced fancy painted stock bits. I was just wondering if anyone had a different opinion

PartyPooper2012 > Wobbles the Mind 01/05/2017 at 08:36

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see... now you gotta go and mess with the system. The question was brz or 86. no spiders.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:38

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I mean, it’s not all bad. Their sway bars are supposedly fine, but it’s also a sway bar. There’s nothing to it. I’d still go whiteline for that though because it’s more adjustable.

VonBootWilly - Likes Toyota, but it's still complicated. > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:39

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Don’t know about the current batch, but I read that the springs/shocks are different. Something about oversteer friendly in the frs, and a balanced setup in the BRZ. I like the BRZ face and the idea of more balanced suspension anyway.

PartyPooper2012 > DipodomysDeserti 01/05/2017 at 08:40

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yeah... that’s on my radar too...

See. I was driving yesterday and I saw one of them last incarnations of Integra.

IMHO, that car was perfect. Perfect number of door. Perfect number of gears in transmission. Perfect shape. Perfect performance. Perfect reliability.

Could it have used more ponies? Well, can my wallet use more money? Of course. I am just looking around today and seeing what might could be considered perfect. Saw BRZ last night too. Shape was just right.

I don’t know how they feel inside. Is the belt too high? Can you put your elbow on a window sil? Can you put your other elbow on center console and be able to shift? Can you operate the radio/climate controls when gear is closer to the dashboard?

Tripper > jimz 01/05/2017 at 08:40

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I’d take the Subaru, but I’ve got to agree with you about Subaru dealers. I’ve bought 3 thus far and it always takes twice as long there, and there is always a bunch of stupid shit that has held us up along the way. Most recently they wanted us to go out to the DMV and re-new our licenses even though we had extension letters making them still valid, before we bought the car...

Funny you mention a TD as I scheduled and then rescheduled (because of the dealer) a TD of the STI hatchback when it first came out (09?) at the dealer where I had previously purchased two new cars. When I got there the guy started pitching me on the car saying he would get the paperwork ready. I told him I wanted to drive it first. I waited for an hour late on a weeknight...no one else in the dealer. He finally comes back out and says that I need to put a deposit on the car in order to drive it... I left.

Wobbles the Mind > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:41

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Riiight, no “spi-derrrsss...s.s.s.” *wink wink*

Probenja > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:42

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Subaru, I can’t get over that front end on the Toyota.

Plus you get starlink instead of Scion’s aftermarket looking unit.

PartyPooper2012 > Wobbles the Mind 01/05/2017 at 08:42

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Tripper > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/05/2017 at 08:42

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That’s what you get for pulling that far into a space in a small car;)

ateamfan42 > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:45

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TRD does make a difference for those who compete following SCCA rules (say in something like autocross). The TRD springs for the FRS (which I assume are also available for the 86), if fitted by a dealer, are considered stock equipment and eligable for use in Street class. Typically, spring upgrades move a car to Street Touring.

DipodomysDeserti > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:45

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I feel like every car’s belt line is too high now. Oddly enough, if I jack the seat up in my Wrangler, the belt line it perfect and I can rest my elbow when shifting. Too bad it is slow as shit and will roll over if driven spiritedly.

Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer > Wobbles the Mind 01/05/2017 at 08:45

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Again, far from an expert, but trading in a used Fiat (even if it’s really a Mazda) seems like a recipe for a bad time. I thought depreciation on a Fiat was horrible.

Tekamul > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:46

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86, because fangs >> dental dam.

PartyPooper2012 > DipodomysDeserti 01/05/2017 at 08:47

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sad state of affairs when we all look like this in our cars:

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:47

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Oh god the new Toyota front end of the 86 is horrible.

EL_ULY > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:50

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Subaru and put Lexus badges on it

PartyPooper2012 > EL_ULY 01/05/2017 at 08:52

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Lexus badges with F Sport of course

TysMagic > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:54

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an aging Land Rover will save us!

EL_ULY > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:56

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lol yusss!

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > TysMagic 01/05/2017 at 08:58

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That is a sentence I don’t usually expect to hear.

Captain of the Enterprise > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 08:58

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I prefer the Subaru because I think the grille makes it look happier which I like

Wacko > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:05

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Subaru, cause Toyota’s only come in Beige

fourvalleys > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:06

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Better than looking dead, in my opinion.

I mean, yeah... the current Camaro looks ridiculous. But it’s also safer than it used to be, thanks in part to that high belt-line.

PartyPooper2012 > fourvalleys 01/05/2017 at 09:17

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Please oh please wrap me in metal to make me safer. I don’t need to look out of the windows to see where im going. As long as I am safe. Think of the children THE CHILDREN!

PartyPooper2012 > Wacko 01/05/2017 at 09:18

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... and grounded to the ground... and sold at PC Richards and Sons between washing machines and stoves

Alan > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:18

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Regarding the FRS/BRZ/86:

Yep. You can operate climate controls in 1st, 3rd, and 5th just fine.

Definitely cannot row the tranny without moving your arm, I don’t even understand how short of a throw your shifter would have to be to do that in any car. lol.

Your left elbow will definitely be happier on the doors armrest, than out the window.

Disregard beltline, acquire 5point harness, cause DORIFTOcar?

I loved mine, would still have it if not for non-car-related things that happened.

PartyPooper2012 > Captain of the Enterprise 01/05/2017 at 09:19

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can’t you slap an aftermarket grill on it?

Look at the possibilities

fourvalleys > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:21

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I can see just fine, and I’m sure you probably can too. If you’re having trouble, there are plenty of cars that offer cameras and sensors to help you out. No need to be asinine.

PartyPooper2012 > Alan 01/05/2017 at 09:22

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I owned a saturn (2 actually) which is why I am not sure which... SC2 or SL.. either way... you cannot rest your right elbow ANYWHERE. You have to hold it in the air like you just don’t care.

What I was saying is I need to put my elbow some place when I am done shifting. I don’t care if I need to move the elbow when shifting.

PartyPooper2012 > fourvalleys 01/05/2017 at 09:23

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I don’t want high belt lines. If I have to sign a waver to go on this ride, I will.

Sorry. Not trying to give you attitude. If I could give a hairy eye ball to the high belt line inventor, i would. Please don’t say it was you.

F40LM > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:24

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Don’t know where you are in the world, but here in Canada the BRZ is better equipped, or at least cheaper to equip than the 86. When I got my ‘15 these were the things the BRZ had over the 86:

1. The fancy headlights
2. fog lights included in package
3. leather and alcantara rather than cloth
4. seat heating
5. better infotainment system included in a package
6. better suspension set up
7. gps in package
8. there was more but i can’t remember everything right now

Personally I think the new 86 are terrible looking.

I really really really wanted the 86 over the BRZ and to rebadge in toyota, i even had an airbag replacement all set up, but financially it just didnt make sense to not get something with more stuff for the same price.

TysMagic > 66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash 01/05/2017 at 09:24

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right? I was excited to type it. But seriously, have you sat in a Discovery of any variety? You’re way up there

TysMagic > 66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash 01/05/2017 at 09:24

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right? I was excited to type it. But seriously, have you sat in a Discovery of any variety? You’re way up there

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:26

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Subaru actually developed and made the car, so I’m a bit partial to them. If I remember correctly, the chassis/suspension setup is a little different on each. The Subaru, erring on the side of stability, is just on the understeer side of neutral, and the Scion (and I assume Toyota) is set up just on the oversteer side, so a little more tail-happy.

PartyPooper2012 > F40LM 01/05/2017 at 09:29

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I am south of you and north of wall.

I am not sure how fancy a fancy headlight could be.

Fog lights are nice, but I might consider putting aftermarket lights anyway

I don’t care for leather. I prefer cloth. Better grip of my hind side around corners

seat heating is nice but not a must have.

I might be getting older in my older days but I listen to news on AM radio these days. I dont care much about subwoofers and tweeters.

Suspensions are always keeping us in suspense.

GPS get old so fast. My phone is what I use these days while I have stand alone GPSs sitting around in the car collecting dust

Many complain about grill on toyota. That isn’t that hard to replace with an aftermarket.

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > TysMagic 01/05/2017 at 09:31

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Unfortunately not. But on a side note, I spotted this in Switzerland a couple days ago:

Definitely one of coolest pickups I’ve ever seen.

PartyPooper2012 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/05/2017 at 09:32

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I wish there was a yahoo answers type thingie. You would get Best Answer award.

Jayhawk Jake > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:33

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It sounds like you want the Toyota then. If you care about resale value maybe the Subaru holds it better?

I think the Subaru looks better and I like fancy features so I’d probably take the Subaru. But the real answer at that price range is an Ecoboost Mustang

Wobbles the Mind > Comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer 01/05/2017 at 09:34

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It is, you buy for $26,000 and two years later it’s worth $14,000...that’s used BRZ money in two years!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:44

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Aw, shucks... I figured, here on OPPO, this is the sort of stuff we should be caring about, not petty interior/exterior styling differences.

That said, personally, I am greatly swayed by good/bad design and styling. I prefer the exterior design of the Subaru; seems more understated or grown up, less flashy.

DocWalt > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:49

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The BRZ is better equipped and IMO looks a LOT better.

interstate366, now In The Industry > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:51

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86, because I like to be spiteful.

PartyPooper2012 > interstate366, now In The Industry 01/05/2017 at 09:53

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Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:54

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Used FRSs in great condition are already below $20k, nearing $15k. Not much time until they are in the sweet $10k range! These are depreciating fast, no sense in buying new. I think if you care at all about resale value and want one now, the BRZ is probably going to hold more value in the future.

smobgirl > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 09:57

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I loathe renting cars that are so base model that there isn’t an armrest of any sort for the driver.

Also agree with you on beltline (and pillars are getting fatter). I can see “just fine” out of my modern car but it was amazing to me just how much more visible the world was the first time I drove my old wagon a few months ago. Yeah, yeah, mirrors, sensors, whatever, but nothing compares to an effortless ability to just SEE your surroundings.

PartyPooper2012 > smobgirl 01/05/2017 at 10:02

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There has got to be a scientific way of measuring a surface area of a vehicle, then surface area of all windows (not roof) and saying certain percentage must remain as visible.

So if you look at a commercial jet, the % would be tiny. If you look at a topless jeep with no doors or a go cart, that % would be huge.

Car makers should make standard value and stop enclosing us in a metal ball with sensors and monitors.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 10:11

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BRZ because the nose on the Toyota is super ugly.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Wobbles the Mind 01/05/2017 at 10:25

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You mean when it depreciates to drift damaged 86 levels?

Rico > Wobbles the Mind 01/05/2017 at 10:47

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Or! Buy the BRZ/86 for $26k, sell it for $18k in 2 years and buy an off lease CPO $14k 124 Spyder.

RyanFrew > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 10:59

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Subie. Better dealerships and better loaner cars when/if you need one.

PartyPooper2012 > RyanFrew 01/05/2017 at 11:01

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if the two cars were made basically by same group of people, shouldn’t both dealerships offer maintenance/service/loaners equally?

TysMagic > 66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash 01/05/2017 at 11:14

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I’d drive that

Twinpowermeansoneturbo > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 11:26

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I work in a dealership and I would kick you out for acting like that. This is what we do for a living, it’s not a game. Your idea isn’t funny or cute and you can threaten to write whatever you want online after, I’d still make the same call every time. Not to mention, good luck getting a lot of sympathy after the dealership replies to your bad review and explains what you did.

RyanFrew > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 11:38

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Most people tend to report very positive experiences at Subaru dealerships. They won’t offer equal loaners though? Everything else on Toyotas floor is lame. Almost everything at Subaru is at least remotely fun.

PartyPooper2012 > RyanFrew 01/05/2017 at 11:41

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I had several toyotas in years past. Never bad experience. I’ve never owned a subaru tho. So I’ll have to try and see one of these days

Stapleface > smobgirl 01/05/2017 at 11:52

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The fat A Pillars in a lot of cars are the worst. Years ago when I had a Nissan cube I almost hit a pedestrian in a crosswalk because I just flat out couldn’t see them due to the huge pillars.

RyanFrew > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 12:06

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It’s not that Toyota is bad. It’s that Subaru is insanely good. And that you can easily ask for a WRX loaner haha

PartyPooper2012 > RyanFrew 01/05/2017 at 12:12

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i might get torched for this, but this is why GM should dissolve itself.

When GM car breaks down, you sit at a dingy dealership till it’s fixed, call a cab so you can sit at home, or maybe the dealership splurges on a loaner like Chevy Aveo.

CaptDale - is secretly British > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 12:50

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That isn’t at all like out GM dealership. It is very clean, very bright, we have a shuttle van to take you places for the day, plenty of SSLP loaner vehicles, if no loaners avaliable we have a great deal for rentals through the Enterprise down the street, fresh coffee in the two large waiting areas with very well appointed furniture, and on has a TV playing and the other is quite incase you want to read or do work. I haven’t seen a GM dealership in the way you described in a very long time.

PartyPooper2012 > CaptDale - is secretly British 01/05/2017 at 13:02

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It may be just this one particular dealership... on second thought... no. no it isn’t. I’ve been to several and it felt like a time warp into the 80s with wood paneling, pot of coffee from few weeks ago. Some lady probably named Peggy with huge hair and mighty red lipstick and some guy with half unbottoned shirt with gold chain and grey chest hair

I’ll walk before I show my face at GM again

CaptDale - is secretly British > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 13:09

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Wow that is wild. I haven’t been in a GM dealership like that in a long time. I was going to say any dealership, but I think it was a Dodge dealer I was in about 2 years ago like that. Those types of please need to go away. I like my dealership, it is a really nice place to be in. Though Subaru is forcing us to do a major remodel this year. FYI we carry GMC, Cadillac, Buick, Subaru, and Hyundai.

It’s going to be massive, both showroom buildings are getting remodeled, the whole shop, and such. It is going to be wild.

RyanFrew > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 13:12

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Haha they directly employ more than 200,000 people. The thought of GM dissolving itself is a real party pooper move.

PartyPooper2012 > CaptDale - is secretly British 01/05/2017 at 13:13

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I now wobble inside a Lexus. That is a mighty fine experience. You have a flat tire? Here is a loaner. You don’t want a loaner? Have a fresh cup of coffee and a doughnut. We’ll wash your car when we’re done with it.

PartyPooper2012 > RyanFrew 01/05/2017 at 13:15

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Surely there is a gigafactory with Tesla logo on it as of late. I am certain Elon can use some help. Just because someone employs fuck ton of people, doesn’t mean the end consumer should be treated like shit

CaptDale - is secretly British > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 13:18

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That is pretty much our dealership as well. Though some days to doughnuts go really quickly ha ha. Our one major issue is that we are so burdened by Subaru recalls and BS, that it is a 2.5 week wait to get your vehicle in for service.

PartyPooper2012 > CaptDale - is secretly British 01/05/2017 at 13:21

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well that stinks. I mean, I understand a dealership can’t take everyone in at same time, but there also should not be so many recalls.

CaptDale - is secretly British > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 13:23

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Well yeah, it is kinda hard when Takata fucked up everything.

PartyPooper2012 > CaptDale - is secretly British 01/05/2017 at 13:27

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well, it isn’t Subaru’s fault directly. In any case, I stand by my opinion of GM having to go away. The amount of money I burned through to get that hunk of metal running is astonishing. Parts that should not fail failed. I couldn’t look at my wife. Every other week - honey, pick me up from the dealership. They are gonna fix XYZ now.

never again

CaptDale - is secretly British > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 13:31

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Fair enough.

Alan > PartyPooper2012 01/05/2017 at 15:19

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Oh, I got you. Yeah, the 86 can both come with, and without armrests in the center. Opt for with. It’s a nutty time always resting your hand on the E-Brake like it’s slideways time, cause you have nowhere else to rest it in the first year FRS.